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... This is our tweaked version of Speedy Gonzalez' break-in procedure. Yesterday's 22-250
1,848 likes likesfenton1441 there's a lot of recent compelling data that contradicts this effectiveness though. 9 likes
- laruetactical @fenton1441 ... Maybe in your eyes there is 🤷 1 like
- returnofthepoor Bruh science is like subjective bro. Ignore the data bro 6 likes
cz_reuben You misspelt "magdump into trash pile 10 yards away" 45 likes
doubleyouay4 I genuinely thought this post was a joke and mockery until I read the comments. To be clear, I know very little about ultra precision shooting. 4 likes
- laruetactical @doubleyouay4 ... Have a barrel that doesn't bugger the bullets, and have the crosshairs within a 1/16th of a minute within the last round that was sent. 3 likes
eric_ryan78 Another very important cleaning is the one before the first shot is ever fired. I've knocked more than a few burrs off of gas ports where they enter the barrel. Pretty sure they would have scored the living shit out of them. To each his own, but I like to massage my barrels before they're ever fired and then follow a similar break in procedure to what's shown above. 2 likes
- laruetactical @eric_ryan78 ... Burrs are gross, so we Ram EDM our gas holes ... 1 like
- eric_ryan78 @laruetactical I wish everyone would EDM their gas ports.
- hellomcfly77 @laruetactical I used to do this but they closed that section of Craigslist. 1 like
ftw.actual When I ordered my Lilja barrel, Dan Lilja recommended a similar break in procedure. I didn't follow it. 16 likes
- laruetactical @ftw.actual ... You damn sure showed him 😎 11 likes
- ftw.actual @laruetactical I didn't show anyone jack shit. Cleaning procedures like this are more likely to damage a barrel than improve accuracy, but you go ahead and keep preaching this garbage so you can sell more barrels. 13 likes
- laruetactical @ftw.actual ... Ship me two 6.5 CMs blanks you made from bar stock, so I can test your barrel making knowledge. 14 likes
- ftw.actual @laruetactical Jesus Christ, did I say I was a barrel maker? No. You know who knew a lot more about barrels than you? Gale McMillan. Go read what he says about your ridiculous break in procedure. It's no wonder so many people think you're a clown. 15 likes
- laruetactical @ftw.actual ... Sorry, but I run volumes of accuracy, not onesie-twosies. But you helped me bag two idiots, so there's that. 😎 11 likes
- plugwach @ftw.actual ive never seen anything about it hurting and all my good long range comp friends do it. They all do a 1,1,3, then every 5 shots cleaning for first 20 rounds with a minute between shots. Either way after buying my tikka t3x tac A1 i was gonna do it if it could even possibly help 2 likes
- catnagat @ftw.actual b.s. If you saw how ammunition manufacturers clean accuracy test barrels, you might change your mind. 5 likes
ryan__hey Clean remaining machining oils out. Thread the barrel on. Make 120-150rnds. Go zero/get MV. Go shoot a one day club match. Clean the bore. Do load development. Break in complete 19 likes
- sean_utley @ryan__hey this 3 likes
nate_dawg1212 Just shoot your damn gun 98 likes
allymunitions Who would have thought this would be so controversial.
That said , we've always done a very similar break in procedure on all test uppers and rifles . Perhaps we will purchase a bunch of barrels and run a extensive test. Although, I do not think any results would change our cleaning and break in regimen. Perhaps it's more of a byproduct of ocd than anything else. At the end of the day , most people saying it doesn't matter probably can't shoot worth a shit anyhow, so does it really matter ? 😆😆😆 2 likes
- laruetactical @allymunitions ... Good stuff, thanks for posting. 2 likes
- laruetactical @allymunitions ... And holy cow, you'd think someone had thrown a box cutter at some of these guys with instructions to circumcise themselves. We're talking about a morning on the range, shooting, cleaning, talking with that new kid two benches down ... 🤷 5 likes
- allymunitions @laruetactical 😂
amusementarmoury Based on the fact that not even barrel manufacturers, nor champion long range precision/f-class guys can agree on whether or not a break in processes provides any improvement over just shooting a box through it, or two, that results are mostly just based on the shooter. Psychologically, or physically. 2 likes
- laruetactical @amusementarmoury ... Yep, the difference is it takes more time and some elbow grease. 😎
gunsandgear Barrel break-ins are for boomers. The future is now, old man! 16 likes
a3addon That's not what you told me with my 762 OBR 🤷😂 4 likes
- laruetactical @a3addon ... And you ended up with a 3/4 minute rifle ? 1 like
- a3addon @laruetactical less. 3/8 roughly. You sent me an "Outshoot the Shootist" certificate and dillo! That OBR shoots lights out. 1000y first round hits all day. My most prizes rifle! 6 likes
- a3addon @laruetactical prized* 😂 3 likes
charliesclones ( sensing ML with his finger on the block button ) 15 likes
- charliesclones @wormydog1724 Well, as long as people keep buying our products, I suppose it's okay that Mark and I are well liked. I assume you include him in the "either." In fact, there are a good number of hugely successful firearms company executives that produce and or sell a good product: Kevin Brittenham, Trey Knight
thejdhill Would love to see a comparison of a barrel that has gone through this break in process and one that is just has a box put through it without the process... 21 likes
- theflyinghouse @thejdhill data is good, everyone should be curious about the same 5 likes
- laruetactical @thejdhill ... Since no two barrels are exactly alike ... it's impossible to compare. If you break the barrel in, then shoot it, you can't unbreak it in in an attempt to do a before / after. If you cut loose without breaking-in, you spoil any chances of doing the break-in procedure as you've already shot it in an uncontrolled fashion, ruining the chance to compare. 1 like
- joelac89 @laruetactical it's a good thing you manufacture barrels... a sample size of 10 of each would be an okay start. 24 likes
- laruetactical @joelac89 ... To do exactly what ?
- joelac89 @laruetactical to test barrels that have gone through the break in process, and those that were shot the same # of rounds. Then shoot a series of groups and average everything out. 21 likes
- laruetactical @joelac89 ... You made my head spin off with too many action-items 2 likes
- sgrizzaffi @laruetactical ML, I fully support your disciplined break in and will be sure to follow it to a T in the future for all my rifles.. but I do like @joelac89 's idea a lot. I would love to see the comparison of 10 barrels that were broken in (the right way) and 10 barrels that fired 20 straight rounds with no cleaning between and no rest intervals. Maybe 3 rd groups at 100 yds on shots 21-23 for each barrel... in the name of science, of course😎😉 11 likes
- ken.mcloud @laruetactical if barrel to barrel variation is random, it will average out across a large enough population 5 likes
- laruetactical @ken.mcloud ... No shit
- machinegun_mercer @laruetactical You are in perfect position to provide solid data and inform the masses. You have a large following and would be doing the 2A community a service by properly educating them on the "Why" and not just the "How". I see lots of people commenting that are unconvinced that this method works. 1 like
- laruetactical @machinegun_mercer ... I have barely over 50,000 followers. Even with all the asses that showed up trying to poo-poo the break-in procedure off, 1,500+ guys still hit the like button. So it made it through the noise and America needs masses of crazy accurate rifles ... and every little bit helps. I'm not building hunting weight rifles that I expect world records to be set with, I'm building volumes of hunting weight rifles that can be expected to smoke a crow at 300 yards when the situation arises. 1 like
- highleveldirty @laruetactical Honestly, you're trying to sound edgy and authoritative, but @joelac89 just proposed a way you could settle this debate scientifically and prove that your break-in procedure is not pure superstition. Your dismissal of the idea isn't a good look for someone calling skeptics "dumbasses."
- laruetactical @highleveldirty ... Sorry, but because no two barrels are exactly alike, there is no way to compare a before break-in and after break-in on the same barrel. The break-in procedure doesn't start with "First, go sight it in and see how she does for the first half of the next year."
- miiisteranderson @laruetactical So what data exists to support that the break in procedure is necessary for improved barrel life or performance? 1 like
- laruetactical @miiisteranderson ... You don't have to take my word for it, move along, nothing to see here.
- miiisteranderson @laruetactical I'm interested in the statement suggesting barrels are different and cant be used to disprove the process. If thats true, what data exists to show the process does work and is beneficial in some form?
- laruetactical @miiisteranderson ... Barrels are chambered with chamber reamers that cut only so many chambers, then they are changed-out for a fresh chamber reamer. Chamber reamers are in a constant state of wearing out, meaning the last barrel was cut with a sharper reamer and the next is gonna be cut with a duller reamer. Hence no two barrels are exactly alike.
- laruetactical @miiisteranderson ... Also, no two chamber reamers are made exactly alike. Add that to the mix.
homo_erectus69420 Just dump 500 rounds of corrosive steel case then clean 3 weeks later. 4 likes
foundersphotographyidaho Ain't nobody got time for that. 5 likes
- laruetactical @foundersphotographyidaho ... You won't notice an improvement using a 4 power Weaver scope. 4 likes
- foundersphotographyidaho @laruetactical 😁
danrobberg I've tried all the different break in procedures and never noticed any difference. Now I screw in the barrel and shoot 150-200 rounds then clean it. 2 likes
dan_smajdor Mag dump out the box sufficient? 8 likes
- not_moot @dan_smajdor yes full send 2 likes
- owenpakledinaz @dan_smajdor mag dumping into garbage is the proper break in procedure 1 like
shorthill_woodworks Sounds like we might be using it sooner rather than later....... 1 like
doltactical What is this "cleaning" thing you speak of? 😂 5 likes
tylerxcollins What if the gun already has a really smooth bore. I have a bergara and it is much smoother than my savage axis
paulmollie Is this for bolt action rifles or all rifles?
- laruetactical @paulmollie ... Centerfire rifles 2 likes
dberishaj Whats this do? 1 like
- laruetactical @dberishaj ... This reduces the odds of damaging one side of the bullet, which throws the bullet's Center Of Gravity off, which is known to detrimental to group size. 2 likes
hlahboy Should we alter this in anyway for a gun that has had the factory test fire? 1 like
- laruetactical @hlahboy ... Dunno.
- hlahboy @laruetactical i also zeroed a 22-250 yesterday but a Weatherby bolt gun. Seems like more great work on your 22-250. Peace.
adventuresofgd Two types of people, those that know and those that ask for proof 😂😂 1 like
david_la_a Lol all the people here saying they don't have a dog in this fight because they don't have knowledge about accurate, sub moa long range target shooting sure have a lot to say on the topic though.
prosteelrain Is this related to thermal expansion/Contraction of ID & internal deburring of land/grooves. Or am I missing something here...?
- laruetactical @prosteelrain ... It's magic
stillten8 "Breaking In" is just layering copper into the small steel imperfections of the barrel and then wiping the carbon off for the next layer of copper. Good hand lapped barrels don't really need it because of the smooth surface, but it damn sure doesn't hurt to do it to any barrel. 1 like
tailormadetargets Very nice, but I swear I emailed you guys about this and someone told me "just clean it after you shoot it" lmfao 🤣 to be fair it is a LaRue it's gonna last 💪💪
senor_crogs I only clean my precision gun, my suppressed SBR gets a bore snake at best lol 2 likes
- hicapmag @senor_crogs I've haven't cleaned any of mine in years lmao, just run em' wet.
licketysplit2 Trying to figure out how to post it right now. 1 like
tyler_atx Haha oh man i just blast away 😅 7 likes
odiesiansupplyco too many steps, I lit the barrel on fire 1 like
laruetactical ... If you won't take 4 hours time on a Saturday morning to massage your new barrel in it's infancy, I don't give a shit. We're probably only talking 1/4 to 3/8ths of a minute anyhow, so somebody as pressed for time as you are, will likely rush a shot 🤷 ML 11 likes
- eric_ryan78 @laruetactical I like to shoot 10" plates at 800 yards. 3/8 moa matters. 2 likes
jackson_heights_pastor This is stupid 🤦 11 likes
- charliesclones @jackson_heights_pastor works well with a Ballistic Advantage barrel, but for precision match barrel in car on or stainless steel, a little extra care in break-in makes a small difference. Hard to argue with a man who hit 1/3 MOA 😍
- laruetactical @charliesclones ... Sub-1/4 moa 😎 4 likes
spaghetti_cheekz ..... I didn't do this lol 6 likes
patrick.a.johnson314 Have copy printed and waiting for 11/1!
tycoramerizdad Thanks
warrior_of_the_weekend Is this procedure recommended for mag dumping into trash? 😂
returnofthepoor Ok boomer 3 likes
licketysplit2 Wish this was recommended for my first two LaRue rifles.. Attached is from a 14" Predatobr running American Eagle 55 grain @ 600 yards. Yes there are two groups as I messed with the dope in between the two.
- laruetactical @licketysplit2 ... "Attached" ?
- licketysplit2 https://photos.app.goo.gl/NMajj11qZ1jun2RZ6 1 like
- licketysplit2 @laruetactical did you get it Mark? Trying to hang sheet rock and bs on here at the same time
- laruetactical @licketysplit2 ... I see it, but phone doesn't let me click on it.
- licketysplit2 @laruetactical OK that is not something that Instagram will let you do. I just changed my profile Pic so take a gander at that.
john_ullman_physique <<<<<<< Runs 20rds of mil surplus through his Larue rig to get sighted in then switches to match ammo......shoots sub moa easily🤷 2 likes
your_torment You clean your guns? 😢😂
derek_crash Any particular bullet type?
_esstac I swear you always told everyone to just shoot your barrels and ignore break in any procedures.....
- laruetactical @_esstac ... Gas gun guys shoot steel pie plates from the hip ... bolt gun guys attempt to shoot crows at 400 yards.
- laruetactical @_esstac ... See @bryan_litz_ballistics recent post ... 1/2" rifles vs 1" rifles
johan.asf fuck that shit just shoot it till it's hot go home and clean it 1 like
rockchalk06 The only thing I'm curious about is the back and forth. I've been told in the past, keep the direction of your cleaning same as the bullet. Any truth to this?
mrgunsngearchannel 🧐 8 likes
- a3addon @mrgunsngearchannel I'll loan you my OBR 762 if you want to review lol. Less than a half MOA rifle in my goofy hands 😂.
- matthewlinnenkohl @mrgunsngearchannel skepticism mounting
gspaudii I literally worked for green mountain rifle barrel (broach and hone...) and currently for a huge firearms manufacturer, if a new barrel can't handle a mag dump right away, it's junk. 3 likes
- laruetactical @gspaudii ... What part of the floor did you mop ? 4 likes
- dberishaj @laruetactical hahaha 1 like
- gspaudii @gspaudii 😂😂😂 run vertical mills.. doing government contract work, which you never will. 1 like
- laruetactical @gspaudii ... There is stuff likely still up in orbit that I made on a vertical mill 😎 2 likes
- gspaudii @laruetactical great, larue? The engraving chick here worked on SpaceX shit at turbocam.
performanceweapons We follow a similar procedure, only the barrel is inspected and cleaned before the process begins to remove any chips, cutting oil, etc. We fire 5 singles and then groups of 3 cleaning between each. Barrels are much easier to clean and foul less by the end. We've also got a rough zero since we're also adjusting the scope during this process, settling the trigger, and evaluating feed and function. Accuracy testing comes after this procedure. My background is performance automotive and all of our engines went through a break-in procedure on the dyno. Not sure why everyone is upset about wear, it's literally one box of ammo, a nylon brush, and cotton patches. We've never had a customer request that we NOT do this procedure.
- laruetactical @performanceweapons ... "Barrels are much easier to clean and foul less by the end." **** Yep, just like clockwork, patches start pushing through easier and easier as more and more rounds go through the barrel. 1 like
jmguill22 In 200 rounds, you have an excellent barrel and it is also easier to clean!
gunsmithlee Always wondered if there was any actual measureable data to show that any method of barrel break in caused umprovements in precision, barrel life, or anything really. 15 likes
- beenkenobib4 @gunsmithlee I don't think there ever has been. Hard to imagine a bore brush is doing more to polish the bore than a projectile screaming down the barrel. 9 likes
- dr.batdad @gunsmithlee Gale McMillain of McMillain tactical, whose barrels have won more gold medals than anyone, vehemently said that "barrel break-in" was useless and did nothing but shorten your barrel life. 8 likes
- laruetactical @dr.batdad ... You'll have a tough time convincing me that any of those records were shot out of virgin barrels 🧐
- dr.batdad @laruetactical Gale is long gone, and I know nothing about it, so I'm gonna take his word for it. 4 likes
- laruetactical @dr.batdad ... Knock yourself out 😎 2 likes
- extremelongranger @dr.batdad Add in Barrett's R&D team. Quote (to me, in person): "We love barrel break in procedures. They're entirely pointless, but we sell more barrels that way." 5 likes
- laruetactical @extremelongranger ... That's good intel on their culture 😎 2 likes
- extremelongranger @laruetactical To be clear, they don't recommend it.... They clearly say they don't, in fact. But they're also not going to complain when people do it. I'm not here to defend Ronnie or Chris, but just to be clear- their "culture" is not in any way tarnished by this particular thing. 3 likes
- laruetactical @extremelongranger ... Says you
- extremelongranger @laruetactical No....says an objective non-interested party (and absolutely not a competitor). They're honest (about this). To the extent they benefit it's because people are listening to things like your (and others) break-in instructions. Again, they specifically include in my MRAD manual NOT to break in the barrel. Then said "if you must....here's what barrel maker X suggests". They couldn't have been more up front about it. 1 like
- laruetactical @extremelongranger ... Good for them ... stand fast and follow their advice ... and let's go crow hunting. You bring one of their "who gives a fuck barrels" and I'll bring one of my overbuilt POS 😎 1 like
- extremelongranger @laruetactical I have more LaRues than Barretts at this point. And I have as many AI's as I do LaRues. AI suggests (but stops short of a recommendation) a 3/5/5/10 break in only. I'll note that my 6.5 and .308 AI barrels (I'm not including the 50BMG for obvious reasons) are SUB 1/4 minute barrels (and yes, with all of the Litz qualifications and these are 5- shot groups). Neither of them had a break-in procedure. Similarly, my Sako TRG42 i (338LM) is a .33Minute gun (would be better if I weren't a flincher behind a pretty light rifle with 300gr 338LM bullets loaded pretty hot (to book max with N570 95.6gr IIRC). That rifle also did not undergo a break in procedure. Do you think AI and Sako make "who gives a fuck barrels"? I'm on the list for a Siete, so I'll be able to compare apples to apples here shortly. 1 like
- laruetactical @extremelongranger ... Do you have evidence that the barrels were not broke-in before you received them ?
- extremelongranger @laruetactical yes. It's literally written in the manual. They proof test, then check for accuracy (two 5 round groups, cleaned in between each process). Page 39 of the AXSA manual if you're curious. 1 like
- laruetactical @extremelongranger ... Uh, that's two groups, but not a break-in.
- extremelongranger @laruetactical Exactly. 1 like
- extremelongranger @laruetactical You're just proving my point....you asked if there was a break in process and I said "no, here's what they do." And you said "uh, that's not a break in process." Uhhhhh, yeah, I know, that's what I said. 1 like
- laruetactical @extremelongranger ... Is English your first language ? 1 like
- mstreak15 @extremelongranger yeah mark isn't looking good in this thread. I would love to see a manufacturer make 20 barrels. 10 get seasoned and 10 get straight 20 rounds thru it. How do they group after?
- laruetactical @mstreak15 ... You're quick to assign massive and expensive action items to others to simply assuage your curiosity.
thomas_occhipinti My go to break in procedure is to shoot 1 round and then hammer the next size bigger bore brush down my barrel covered in KY warming jelly
- laruetactical @thomas_occhipinti ... What is Kentucky Warming Jelly ?
- thomas_occhipinti @laruetactical some of best all purpose lube on the market, use it in all my guns, doesn't break down like slip 2000
frigglebiscuit LOL no.
derekbrown1573 I mag dump into trash
regularprecisiondude If a barrel averages 0.4moa 5 shot groups with factory ammo, was break in still not performed?
- laruetactical @regularprecisiondude ... ?
stevo4361 Unnecessary
c.l.i.t.commander_ None of this will matter unless you are making a living sharp shooting. Most of us will hopefully just end up using our guns in the next revolution and all we beex is for them to go bang everytime...and stockpiled ammo
alexander_suki Anyone else just shoot the gun and clean as needed?
catnagat Barrel break in is real. Anyone working in the ammunition industry probably knows this from testing. Aside from that point, @laruetactical test fires and sends test targets with factory built rifles. Does this mean you guys break in factory built rifles, or just fire the first three rounds through a rifle at a target and call it a day? I'm sure I know the answer, but I'm curious what ML will say... 4 likes
mrmrar15 @laruetactical novice here. Asking for knowledge. What does this do to the barrel? What happens to barrel if one were to simply shoot the box of 20, then do the prescribed cleaning? 2 likes
captnjack @laruetactical ha, never did this.. still lights out. Well done 👏
wilcoxcode3 @theyeetman15
2aisdawae @otter_dump you do this right?
- otter_dump @2aisdawae something like it yes. With any of my barrels where accuracy matters most. I do it a little different. I shoot 1 round then clean for first 5 rounds, then shoot 5 rounds and clean twice, then shoot 10 rounds and clean. 25 rounds of break in pretty much 1 like
davidhults9 @eli_davids
dalenster @keikei227
extremelongranger @charliesclones No it doesn't. Makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.
- charliesclones @extremelongranger maybe. I learn my barellology from Boots Obermeyer. Boots is the father of the modern single cut 5R rifling, and many of today's top barrel blank makers trained under Boots. Most notably Kreiger and Criterion founders. Maybe Lilja or Bartlein. I forget. He said it did make a difference. Like seasoning a cast iron skillet. But, maybe he was wrong. Certainly all the hot lapping of real bullets helps. But, for a box of bullets and a little extra time, I think I will follow Boots' advise on a match grade bolt gun. 🤓
- extremelongranger @charliesclones This conversation has been going on for DECADES. We (the "it doesn't make a difference" team) can't prove a negative because just as Mark did above - the "it does make a difference crowd will complain about methodology. So, the burden of proving that it does make a difference falls to you guys, and yet - given decades upon decades of opportunity, literally no one has been able to show that it improves accuracy, longevity, etc. People don't apparently understand that degradation of accuracy starts at the throat, and the more and faster it is fire cracked the worse accuracy will be. So....prove it. 2 likes
- charliesclones @extremelongranger it can be proven or disproven, if someone wanted to take the time and expense. Mark has show a reasonable amount of consistency in accuracy from barrel to barrel. Take a random sample of same batch barrels , and so a double blind study, and see if there is a statistically significant variance between one group and the next after say, 100 shots of live fire. Just saying.
- extremelongranger @charliesclones but see, someone suggested just that and mark said "no, the only way to test is through the same barrel, and you can't "unshoot a barrel". He's not entirely wrong, btw. Every barrel is going to have slightly different harmonics, which means every barrel will have a different "optimal" load. So your approach is overly simplistic. You'd have to run the same load development process for each barrel... and then do all of the things you said, and then shoot enough groups to truly show what the barrels' accuracy is/are (see Litz's postings on how many groups that is....it's a lot more than you think). So, again, I say, prove it. 2 likes
- charliesclones @extremelongranger I would not say my approach is overly simplistic. Statistics and probabilities work with a random sample of the same barrel production. Take a look, for example at @laruetactical barrel proof tests. Yes, they vary. But within a tight standard deviation. Now take 20 barrels of such similar production (same batch of steel rods, same barrel cutter, same profiling and reaming). Give 10 to shot as is, each for 10 shots. Now do the break-in on the other 10. Allow the non-broken in barrels to fire 20 rounds, so each has the same wear on the bore and chamber. Now, compare. This is how drugs are tested for efficacy and side effects. You cannot test the same person with The real drug and a placebo. 2 likes
dwr61 Just curious @laruetactical minus the 22-250 mentioned in this post, do you go through the same break in process with the other AR rifles that you post the results of? Or are those proof fired right off the quality control desk?
- laruetactical @dwr61 ... Mostly proofed right off the bat.